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Jon Nadler: Gold Not In Bull Market
Written by Lara Crigger   
October 30, 2009 12:40 PM EST

 

Recently, gold appears to have entered The Mother of All Bull Markets. Even though gold has backed off of its $1,072/oz record from two weeks ago, as of Thursday's close, the market was still up 18 percent for the year and climbing. Interest in the yellow metalfrom both individual and institutional investorshas never been higher.

But don't be fooled, says Jon Nadler, metals market analyst and PR head for Kitco Metals, Inc. The precious metals expert says the current bull market in gold is all an illusionone that the fundamentals can't support for long.

With over 30 years' experience in precious metals markets and investment, Mr. Nadler is a well-respected authority on gold. He writes a popular daily gold market commentary for Kitco, and his metals expertise is frequently sought out by the Wall Street Journal, Bloomberg, Reuters, the Associated Press, Financial Times, CNBC and more.

Recently, HAI associate editor Lara Crigger discussed gold fundamentals with Mr. Nadler, including what investors should look for in a gold bull market, why gold supply and demand are so out of whack with prices, and what two events should kick off a price correction.

 

Lara Crigger, associate editor, HardAssetsInvestor.com (Crigger): You've written before, "Gold is not in a bull market. The dollar is in a bear market." How do you know? What telltale signs indicate a gold bull market?

Jon Nadler, metals market analyst, Kitco Metals (Nadler): This phenomenon here has largely been a dollar-driven, dollar-based story, but the requirements for a bull market in gold extend beyond a simple anti-dollar relationship. There are four factors that truly make a gold bull market.

First and foremost, you have to have demand that far outstrips supply. Like any commodity in higher demand than supply makes available, you'd obviously see a price reflection.

Secondly, you'd have to have a falling stock market. The old adage is that gold is an inverse asset to currencies, stocks and other assets—so where's the bear market in stocks? Stocks have been up 50 percent-plus this year.

Third, you'd have to have an actual, tangible inflation level, and the threat of much higher inflation on the horizon as well. We don't see that either, which we'll talk about later.

And fourth, you'd need an increase in the price of gold across all major currencies—no exceptions. You can't have Aussie dollars and the South African rand going one way, while the euro and U.S. dollar is going the other.

Those four factors are not satisfied by the current picture in gold—not even remotely. What we really see is a momentum- and index-fund-driven speculative move that started almost on cue on Sept. 1. They've been piling in, hand over fist, with margin positions and futures positions that have now mushroomed to a level that's unreal—historic highs, on the order of 750 tons of long positions. They outnumbered the shorts 9:1 as of the week before last; it has since narrowed to 7:1 [as of Tuesday, Oct. 27]. Still, that's way distorted.

But I have to say from the get-go, I'm not a gold bear. I know that anybody who doesn't say "$2,000 gold!" is automatically a bear, but I'm just a realist who looks at supply and demand.

Crigger: But isn't gold supposed to be this ideal anti-dollar play?

Nadler: It's not that simple. In fact, statistically speaking, if you look at the correlation between gold and the dollar since 1971-72, it's -0.27. In plain English, that means if you are betting gold as an anti-dollar play, you're likely to lose money 73 percent of the time.

Then other people will say, "Well, it's a perfect inflation hedge." But gold's correlation to inflation is about 10 percent. So, perfect inflation hedge? Far from it. In fact, it's rather ineffectual against the mundane, everyday 5 percent (or sub-5 percent) inflation that we had for 25 to 30 years. It is very effective against Zimbabwe- or Weimar Republic-style inflation—and if that's what you see the U.S. coming to, then be my guest: Overload on gold.



 

 
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Comments (19)

 Friday, 30 October 2009 16:50 EST - Posted by Ermilo

 
Wow....someone with common sense. I'm impressed with the break down of the bearish view on Gold. I'm also bearish on Gold as well.

 Sunday, 01 November 2009 9:26 EST - Posted by Bill

 
Jon Nadler has no credibility. Period> He is laughed at by experienced people in precious metals. He is wrong on his calls most of the time. If you invest contrary to Mr. Nadlers advice it is an easy win. Mr Nadler has been saying gold will decline in price in US dollars for years, yet gold has incresed every year for the last 9. He says gold should be 600 dollars an ounce and it is 1000. You discredit your article and publication by using Mr. Nadler.

Meanwhile gold is up 18 percent this year and averaged 16 percent up each year the prior 8 years while the Dow and S&P are flat. Who are you going to listen to, The facts? Or Mr Nadler? flat.

 Sunday, 01 November 2009 12:07 EST - Posted by Weid

 
If Jon Nadler hates gold so much, why is he in the PM business?

If this really is not a gold bull market, imagine what the price action will be like when we are in one.....

 Sunday, 01 November 2009 15:35 EST - Posted by Roman

 
I always like to listen to what Jon says and I have a couple of questions for him. If traditional fundamental demand for gold is critical for the price of commodity why this demand had never driven gold price higher in the past. Didn't it have its ups and downs? I understand that gold price is overstretched by speculative buying and there is a risk of significant correction. Technically, it looks vulnerable but maybe it is "overpriced" based on broader market recognition of growing asset class status. Also, most analysts talk about general price inflation but how about inflation in average cost of production which has gone up quite dramatically almost in every product and service worldwide compared to 10, 20 ,30 years ago. Additionally, how about the recent credit crisis which has clearly revealed that the capitalism model of financially leveraged growth is too risky and costly for taxpayers and my personal view is that we need some other economic model for stable and less cyclical growth. I also believe that The Fed and other central banks monetary policies are no longer efficient for supporting economic prosperity and controlling inflation. Modern monetary policies are only driving volatility and benefiting our WS "friends".

 Sunday, 01 November 2009 18:30 EST - Posted by Roman

 
I guess the major reason for the "overpricing" in gold is that current financial crisis has shown to investors how much financial risk has been pumped into the real world economies. Unless investors get reassurances that the economies may become hedged from financial risk and volatility coming from central bank monetary policies the traditional asset classes might still find support from investment community.

 Monday, 02 November 2009 13:51 EST - Posted by mike

 
i met jon and find his remarks interesting but do not think he will prove out to be correct. the only point i recall from our conversation at this point was regarding inflation if it did get bad - he expected a volker to reign it in. this despite that even volker said he couldn't do now what he did back then. we were a net creditor then with debt held with long maturity dates, today we're a net debtor and everyone holds short term assets which they'd all quickly roll into our offerings at a much higher %. also when volker was in office the recession was engineered on purpose; this one was not and is a little out of control. it's quite simply an apples/oranges comparison.

 Tuesday, 03 November 2009 8:57 EST - Posted by Dale F. Doelling

 
I'm not sure what this guy is smoking but any bona fide Trend Follower will tell you that this is one of the great bull markets in history. If it's not, then bull markets simply don't exist.

 Tuesday, 03 November 2009 9:57 EST - Posted by John

 
Today MMF announced India bought 200 tons. Doesn't seem like a bear market to me.
I think another factor helping gold price is the increased uncertainty sine 3-4 weeks ago.

 Wednesday, 04 November 2009 4:07 EST - Posted by Henk J. Krasenberg

 
I agree and disagree with Jon Nadler's views. I agree in the sense that gold is not in a bull market by the classic definitions. But some things have happened recently in this world of change. Jon Nadler, who follows gold on a day-to-day basis, belongs to the people whose thinking methods are still the same as before, while almost everything in the financial and investment communities has changed. That is where they go wrong!
I disagree with Jon Nadler's view on the current gold markets. In my view, we are in a process of what I would call "a historical adjustment of the gold price". All kinds of values have been adjusted to reflect the developments since the 1980's, indices, evaluations, salaries and wages, prices, you name it. In comparison, gold seems to be the only value that has stayed behind as it is still selling at a steep discount of its all time January 1980 high of $850, adjusted for inflation. Which makes gold still cheap.

 Wednesday, 04 November 2009 11:26 EST - Posted by Mark

 
Intelligent people like to hear opinions from people who disagree with them, because it gives them a chance to examine their assumptions. Sometimes they even change their minds, but at the very least they have gone through an intellectual exercise. Apparently, most gold bugs are intellectually morbidly obese, because having their beliefs challenged is an exercise they appear to be mightily afraid of. I believe gold will go higher short term on speculative demand, but there will ultimately be a collapse as the fundamentals (as cited by Nadler) eventually prevail.

 Wednesday, 04 November 2009 15:16 EST - Posted by Bryan

 
What you fail to see is that a guy like Nadler is the perfect snake oil salesman. Look at his great smile and attitude! How could anyone not believe him?? Paper gold will soon be despised on a scale that snake oil never saw. Yet Nadler continues selling those wares. He is not a star you want to hitch your wagon to.

 Thursday, 05 November 2009 1:41 EST - Posted by anonymous

 
Nadler is the primary spokesperson for the Anti Gold Cabal and has been manipulating sentiments negatively about gold at their behest..The Dollar is being printed by the Hundreds of billions and is in unlimited supply so its bound to loose all its value some day and the only thing which can replace it are Gold Backed reserves to bring some sort of order to the financial system of the world...Just think about it....We place a value to something which can be easily manufactured by a country (Dollars)and we buy resources, products and services with it which are of a limited nature..In effect, in todays Dollar driven world we can buy limited resources with unlimited paper......Where is that going to take us??...towards Gold.

 Thursday, 05 November 2009 2:08 EST - Posted by tim

 
to ensure fiscal discipline and to prevent the creation of asset bubbles (like the Us sub-prime crisis) a country should only be allowed to print currency based on its hard assets like gold.for eg-a country should be allowed to print the equivalent of 1 billion dollars for every tonne of gold it has.

 Friday, 06 November 2009 19:36 EST - Posted by Allan

 
Nadler has been so wrong for so long, it's amazing he gets any publicity. On kitco you can search the archives and view his track record dating back to 2007. He believes in the ultimate dominance of fiat currency and advises allocating only a miniscule amount to gold as an insurance policy. He believes the fiat currencies are inherently sound and are valid constants against which supply and demand laws should be applied. He overlooks the incredible amount of monetary inflation that has occurred since gold was decoupled from the dollar in 1971. He only considers present price inflation without regard to future price inflation, something which gold is very good at anticipating. He overlooks the fact that mankind's many experiences with fiat money always resulted in it's inevitable collapse. If you believe that central banks with their $9 trillion (growing at 15% a year)in fiat reserves are indeed masters of the universe, then Jon is your man. But in my opinion his narrow views of the gold market are way off the mark and are not to be taken seriously.

 Saturday, 28 November 2009 0:30 EST - Posted by Bob

 
Nadler almost always comes up with a reason why gold is too high and why it should come down in price. If you preach the same old story consistently, sooner or later you'll be right. The problem is, the rest of the time you'll be wrong. And from what I've read, Nadler is mostly wrong. Whenever gold finally peaks, Nadler will probably be touting how he has been right all along. The only problem is, he will have been wrong for a loooonnnggg time before that.

 Saturday, 28 November 2009 21:15 EST - Posted by Richard Sorrel

 
Including a Jon Nadler piece on your website does nothing to promote your site's credibility

 Sunday, 29 November 2009 17:41 EST - Posted by henk j. krasenberg

 
in addition to what i commented earlier: if jon would be right, your 'hard assets' would not be so hard for long.......
lara could have been a bit more tough on him, as "allen" said, he has been so wrong so many times. if he doesnt like gold, let him stick to that wonderful stockmarket.......that is what the crowd likes and filled with hot air......
i wrote a more detailed comment on jon's interview in my november issue of GOLDVIEW, i ended my comment saying that GOLD IS NOT THE BUBBLE, GOVERNMENTS ARE THE REAL BUBBLY. people like jon still trust those guys.....

 Monday, 30 November 2009 21:34 EST - Posted by James M.

 
I've been hearing the same ol' bearish schtick about gold for years:

"It's not a good investment. It doesn't pay interest. Production will rise as soon as prices rise. Everyone will send their gold jewelry to Cash 2 Gold, the Fed will suppress the price, yada, yada, yada"

And yet gold keeps going up - until it doesn't which, of course, it won't forever. But forever can be a mighty long time.

 Wednesday, 02 December 2009 3:44 EST - Posted by Alan

 
One has to admire the unwavering consistency of Jon Nadler, who never, ever lets reality and the complete truth intrude on his incessantly pro-establishment, anti-gold, anti-financial freedom crusade. The man not only doesn't know when to stop digging himself deeper into the hole of denial and malicious disinformation which he has dug himself into, he actually seems proud of his record of badmouthing gold at every opportunity for years now.

Rarely does one come across a person such as Jon Nadler, whose motives are so patently malicious and evil.



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